their status as killer whales. the woman aboard the boat was in the face of real danger and an emotional dilemma. either save the sea lion's life or her own. >> i know, honey. this is how the world works. oh, boy. oh, my. oh, my word. >> my hands sweat no matter how many times i watch it. she decided what she decided she had to do and the woman forced the sea lion to jump ship. what would you have done? the story reveals the crossroads we often face as humans the cruelty of allowing the sea lion to be eaten versus the necessity of self-preservation. with congress, just hours away from starting debate on the president's entire agenda who right now is the sea lion? whose the orca? who is driving that boat and who knows? instead of the legislative fight ending like the story with the sea lion perhaps we'll get an

outcome as glorious as this picture of german chancellor angela merkel leaving public service basking in the glory of birds. that is it for this sunday and this weekend. thank you for being with us. i'm alee, mendez. i'm going to see you back here next weekend at 6:00 p.m. for more "american voices." right now it is time for "the mehdi hasan show." i know you didn't know how i was going to bring that all back to politics. but we did. >> i like the way you did. i'm not going to talk about seat seal lion, but i'm going the say isn't it amazing angela merkel leaves office after a decade in charge of germany and america has still never elected a woman leader. >> you know that is a note i can get behind. have a great show. >> deeply depressing. have a great rest of your sunday. tonight on the mehdi hasan show the fate of biden's agenda will be decided this week and decided in the senate by democrats. will they reach a deal with themselves? or throw it all away? i'll ask senator mazie hirono of hawaii.

plus, award winning film maker and activist michael moore is here, who has become a surprising left wing supporter of president biden. what does he make of the budget deal and the withdrawal from afghanistan? and don't mess with law professor tulson. senator ted cruz learned his lesson the hard way this week in the senate. you'll see how she handled him on voting rights and you'll see me talk to her live tonight. good evening. it is a little over a month until halloween but it already feels like we're living in a modern american horror movie as if living through a deadly pandemic wasn't bad enough we've seen voting rights being whittled away, unemployment benefits cut off, the expiration of the eviction moratorium, white nationalism taking over the gop, and right wing senate democrats dominating their party's agenda. if all that doesn't crush your spirits we have a potential government shutdown and debt crisis coming down the line. oh, and a political stalemate over a $3.5 trillion social and economic policy and climate change bill.

the heart of biden agenda. if you are thinking the republican party is the freddy kruger of this nightmare you'd be wrong. it's the left. apparently the left is to blame. don't take my word for it. progressive democrats this week were crowned the villains by the master of horror himself stephen king who in his new avatar as a #resistant liberal activist tweeted this week, quote, memo to progressives 70% of something is better than 100% of nothing. the electorate is watching you squabble like children in a playground. maybe, just maybe it's time for stephen king to give political commentary a rest and stick to the novel writing. for a start, it's important to remember this is $3.5 trillion over ten years that they're trying to get through congress, and it's already a compromise. bernie sanders said just months ago he wanted and the climate needs $6 trillion over ten years. so if we're looking for a 70% compromise as stephen king suggests we've already cleared that.

$3.5 trillion is already less than 60% of what sanders and the left were asking for. but why are we talking about compromising at all? this rhetoric is reflective of the commentary across the entire political and media landscape. those on the left, progressives, are constantly told to be more realistic. just be pragmatic. maybe consider a compromise. but no one ever asks the conservatives, the centrists, the quote-unquote, moderates to compromise or back down. do they? this country desperately needs to tackle climate change. according to new research out this week the northeast of the u.s. is one of the fastest warming areas in the entire northern hemisphere. we've all seen the wildfires, the hurricanes, the devastation that global warming is causing in our own back yard. as for the economy, paid medical leave, child tax credits, universal pre-k. all of that is vitally important to the lives of ordinary americans. what on earth have the so-called moderates got against it? i've said this time and time

again. there is nothing moderate about opposing action on climate change or trying to make sure ordinary american families can just get by day to day. and yet you have democratic senator krysten sinema taking money from big pharma and democratic senator manchin and his family company basking in coal money while blocking paid family leave and child care for their constituents. perhaps we have to start talking about dinos. democrats in name only. they won't say what they want to cut just a smaller bill. president biden literally said to senator manchin in the oval office last week give me a number. manchin's response? quote, i think a good reconciliation bill could be done whenever. the cynicism, the bad faith. how on earth can biden negotiate with people who seem to have no care for their party's agenda or fellow americans, their own constituents?

regardless the vote is coming. speaker pelosi is racing to ensure she has enough votes to pass the infrastructure bill and the big budget reconciliation bill. moments ago she announced that the vote on that bipartisan infrastructure framework will be held on monday and the budget reconciliation on thursday with debate beginning tomorrow. the $3.5 trillion reconciliation bill is coming. it is coming to a theater near you. >> we're ready to vote for both. we are excited to vote for both. we will vote for both. but we need to actually get the reconciliation bill done. >> i support reconciliation, so do my colleagues, you know, we meet all the time. let me tell you, we all agree we need a reconciliation package and i think that is important for everyone to understand. but that doesn't mean -- these are two separate bills. >> joe biden is saying today he is optimistic about what will happen in congress this week. but let's not forget the bigger picture. it is easy to treat this all like a political horse race. who's up? who's down? sinema and manchin versus biden and pelosi.

gottheimer versus jayapal. but it is important to realize, that's not really what matters in the end. because the main story here that should bother all of us is that the american people are suffering for no good reason. they've been gas lighted. why is it that the u.s. is the only industrialized country that cannot guarantee health care or child care or family leave for its citizens? now you have even top democrats in congress supposedly centrist, moderates, realists, saying sorry, america. you can't have what everyone else has. i'm sorry but they're lying to you. we can afford $3.5 trillion over ten years. we can afford to tax the super rich. we can afford to guarantee basic rights and living standards to the people of this country. 11 senators including bernie sanders and mazie hirono released a statement this week demanding not just part but all of the biden agenda.

it reads in part, we voted for the infrastructure bill with the commitment that the two pieces of the bill would move together and passing the infrastructure bill first would be in violation of that agreement. is there any hope for any of this? joining me now is democratic senator from hawaii, mazie hirono on the senate committees and thanks so much for coming on the show tonight. >> good evening. >> i want to start by asking you your reaction to nancy pelosi's announcement this evening that this vote will happen this week, that the debate will happen. the vote will happen. the numbers are there. what do you think is going to happen this week? >> what is going to happen is what nancy says is going to happen because she knows how to count votes. and i know that the speaker is just as committed as i am to get both parts, all of joe biden's priorities and agenda through. i expect her to get these things done.

now, my concern is of course what is the senate going to do? and so joe biden and krysten sinema, they need to tell us what program areas they don't like in the build back better america. as you said we've been waiting forever for the kinds of measures that will allow women to have child care, affordable, and to expand medicare, all of the things american people want. that's what i'm focused on. >> senator hirono, sometimes when you look at these negotiations between democrats, forget republicans, it feels like a game of chicken is being played here. which side will back down first? which side will give up their cherished policy, the bipartisan infrastructure bill, for the centrists, the budget reconciliation for basically everyone else. and i wonder, i do have kind of a philosophical question here which is i feel like sometimes the left backs down first because the left actually gives a damn about people's lives and it is not just a game and therefore when stephen king says take 70% of something not 100% of nothing i worry that on every occasion it is the left that

backs down. is that what is going to happen this week that the progressives in the end will say we can't afford to lose both bills though we have centrists on record saying we don't care if both bills fall, the progressives aren't going to say that. where are we on this? >> this is the clearest example of how progressives are on the same page as the majority of american people with the majority of what we want, child tax credits, medicare extension, all that. the progressives are on the page with the american people. and joe biden. it is the moderates who are saying that this is all not reasonable. and yet they don't tell us which part of the build back better they don't like so we can actually talk about how much it really is going to be and by the way this bill is going to cost zero because it is all paid for unlike the 1.5 billion in fully unnecessary tax breaks the republicans gave to the richest people in our country and corporations. this is all paid for.

you know? i wish that joe biden, who cares about the debt and all of that, that he recognizes this is all paid for and we should have everybody paying their fair share of taxes. what's wrong with that? nothing. >> i think you said joe biden. did you mean to say joe manchin? >> joe manchin. sorry. >> we are confusing our joes. we're confusing our joes. >> joe manchin. >> what is ironic is joe biden is a centrist president. he wasn't elected as a progressive. it is his agenda. this is not just a progressive agenda. >> that is right. >> you mentioned joe manchin, krysten sinema. they are the big holdups. let's talk about sinema. according to the "new york times" she is reportedly privately told colleagues she will not accept any corporate or income tax rate increases. if that is the case, senator hirono, what is the point of all of this? why are we still acting like this is a group of equals negotiating when they are acting like hostage takers. these bills are dead if she won't agree to a single tax rise. are you one of the colleagues

she confided that to? according to "the times"? >> no. but she has obviously confided to people that, you know, now you know about it. i think this would be a really terrible position for krysten to take that she doesn't think everybody should pay their fair share of taxes. we know that the richest people and corporations do not pay their fair share of taxes and that is how joe biden's domestic agenda, which is mine, how that is all going to be paid for. i hope she changes her mind. let's put it that way. we need to hear from both krysten and joe, what parts of the build back better program do they not like so we can start talking about the parts they do like and we can fund those parts at least. >> one thing that bothers me, senator, i'd love your take, is this idea whaf we call people. so people who want both bills to be passed are called progressives. people who just want the hard infrastructure bill to be passed are moderates. i wonder about the word

moderate. what is moderate about opposing action on climate change or child care? if they're moderates, does that make someone like yourself an extremist? >> not at all. that is the thing. >> exactly. >> these labels are really misleading. it is the progressives if you want to call us that. the ones who really are on the page with the american people. the american people want all of the things in joe biden's agenda and that is where we are. so i would say this is a time for the moderates, so-called moderates, to get real and to do those things that will actually help our american people. rather than -- the republicans are loving all of this. >> yes. >> since when do the democrats sit back and give the republicans the outcomes they're going for? by the way, in all of this discussion, the republicans take absolutely no responsibility. they are sitting on their hands acting as though oh, yeah government shutdown? sure. why not?

they're not going to vote to extend or keep the government running just as there was a time when there was a one-month shutdown where federal employees had to go stand in food banks and i also prepared baskets for them and then they also don't care if there is no debt limit extension and so pretty soon government will run out of cash, people will not get their social security payments. they won't be able to fund various benefits. we won't be able to pay the military. so they sit there saying, oh -- >> the republicans are loving this and they are praising joe manchin and krysten sinema. we are out of time. i hope you can get through to your two colleagues this week and to the quote-unquote moderates in the house. thank you for being with us tonight. appreciate it. >> you're welcome. still to come, in a hearing this week senator ted cruz tried to twist the words of a law professor and it blew up in his face. spectacularly. you have to see this. and hear from her. plus oscar winning film maker michael moore is with me. i'll ask him what he thinks

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we need to not only crush trump at the polls, afterwards we need to fix this rotten, corrupt, economic system that gave us donald trump and everything else we're dealing with. i am proud today to offer my endorsement of senator bernie sanders. >> activist and filmmaker michael moore back in cob 2019 throwing his support behind presidential candidate bernie sanders. like so many on the left, has since become a big promoter of the joe biden agenda. in a series of tweets, moore has lavished praise on the president for signing the american rescue plan, ending the war in afghanistan and bringing in a sweeping federal vaccine

mandate. he's even gone so far as asking whether joe biden is our new fdr. how long will this love affair last? well, a big test of that will come this week when progressives and centrists face off on two of the president's most important priorities, the bipartisan infrastructure bill, and the $3.5 trillion reconciliation bill. for more on all of this i'm joined by the man himself michael moore, oscar winning film maker and host of the critically acclaimed "rumble with michael moore" podcast. michael, thanks so much for coming on the show tonight. >> thanks. >> you spent much of the 2020 campaign criticizing joe biden from the left as did i to be fair. have you been surprised biden has much more progressive and in line with the bernie sanders agenda than many on the left would have imagined in 2019-2020? how worried are you that agenda could be defeated in the coming days? >> yes i'm surprised. i'm pleased. i'm also, i also understand it is politics.

and joe biden clearly is a smart enough politician to know that the majority of this country now is progressive meaning the majority of this country believes the climate change is real. the majority believe women should be paid the same as men. the majority believe that $15 an hour is the minimum of the minimum wage. you go down the whole list of things whether it's a woman's right to control her own body, whether it's universal health care, just go down the list. the american people take the progressive position on these issues. so it is no surprise that he once in office and once elected certainly knew that the right way if he was going to serve the american people was to lean left because that is where the public is at. i just want to remind people for the umpteenth time that in the what, 33 years since george bush

the first bush was elected in 1988, there have been eight presidential elections. the democrats have won seven of the eight. the american people have gone to the polls seven out of the eight last times and said we want these guys, these women. >> popular vote. >> in power. yes. other people in other countries laugh at us having to put an adjective before the vote. it is the majority of americans want the democrats. they want the progressive way. they're tired of the old way. >> so, michael, on that note of voting for joe biden, you said voted for joe biden to run the country not joe manchin. i wonder how angry are you at manchin and his fellow conservative democratic senator krysten sinema seem to be doing the republicans' work for them? as mazie hirono mentioned before the break. the republicans are loving this and they are praising sinema and manchin almost every day. >> i'll be very surprised if senators manchin and sinema don't do the right thing

especially for the people of their states. what i have suggested to joe biden not that i have a daily conference call with him or anything but what i suggested is that he should just ask joe manchin and krysten sinema, what do you need? what does arizona need? what does west virginia need? i can guarantee you that all people who voted for biden whether they're left, left center, center, independents, whatever. they would say tonight, president biden, give joe manchin and krysten sinema what they need for their states and before this comes down to a vote early in the morning senator manchin call joe biden and say, i will go along with this but i need these things for my state because my state is hurting. and just -- >> the problem is i think the problem is that they don't care about their constituents. they care more about their donors. that is what seems to become clear in recent days.

sinema ran on reducing pharmaceutical prices and now she is objecting to that part of the bill that does that while taking hundreds of thousands of dollars in pharmaceutical money over the last few years. >> you mentioned in the last segment this thing of calling these democrats moderates. there is nothing moderate about them. it is just a polite way of saying they're corporate democrats. they are there to do the bidding of as you said the donors so the donor class of the elites and that is how we should refer to them. they are corporate democrats. and, yes. they stand a chance of ruining everything. but like the wonderful senator from hawaii that you just had on said, she just wants to ask them, what part of this would you take out? let's take away the hearing aids from the senior citizens. no dental care for our seniors in medicare. let's get rid of that. let's get rid of child care. the thing right now that is making it so hard for parents to work right now.

one of the things they need the most. what are you going to take away senator manchin and sinema? they haven't said it yet because they just don't like, they don't want to tax the rich. that really is what this comes down to. >> yes. >> and all we're asking is that they tax the rich at the same rate that ronald reagan was taxing the rich. that's it. we're not asking for some big eisenhower era where the rich had to pay from 70% to 90% of their income in taxes. by the way you can show old footage of the rich during the 1950s, hollywood, etcetera. they lived in really nice homes. the rich have always done well and enjoyed life. >> the problem is we're hearing that krysten sinema today, "new york times" is reporting she doesn't any tax rises on the rich. it is a really difficult situation the progressives find themselves in. >> i don't find it -- i don't

feel it is difficult. >> almost a hostage taking situation going on. >> no. >> we're going take a break, michael. >> i wish we could discuss this for much longer, but i want to talk foreign policy with you. so michael, please stay with us. we got plenty more to discuss. definitely want to talk about the so-called war on terror with you. stick around. plus, also on the show coming up, why the texas border looked more like the wild west this week, and why we should all be ashamed of american immigration policies. my rant on that. first, before we go back to michael richard lui is here with the headlines. stories this hour, the funeral for gabby petito was held sunday afternoon near her hometown on long island, new york. her feeiansa brian laundrie who has been named a person of interest in her killing was last seen 12 days ago. he remains at large. the swiss parliament voted to legalize same sex marriage in the country on sunday. voters passed that vote with over 64% majority there. a majority in all 26 swiss states.

the new law will also make it possible for same sex couples to adopt and have children. hurricane sam was upgraded to a category 4 storm saturday night. the hurricane recorded sustained wind speeds of 145 miles per hour in the middle of the atlantic ocean. the hurricane is currently not expected to reach land. more of the mehdi hasan show after this break. we have to be able to repair the enamel on a daily basis. with pronamel repair toothpaste, we can help actively repair enamel in its weakened state. it's innovative. my go to toothpaste is going to be pronamel repair. do i need to pretreat my laundry? nope! with tide pods, you don't need to worry. my go to toothpaste the pre-treaters are built in. tide pods dissolve even when the water is freezing. nice! if it's got to be clean, it's got to be tide.

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we live in a time where we have a man sending us to war for fictitious reasons. we are against this war, mr. bush. shame on you, mr. bush. shame on you. and any time you've got the 66 against you your time is up. thank you very much. >> earlier this month we commemorated 20 years since 9/11. nowadays it seems like everyone is falling over themselves to say what an absolute disaster the war on terror was. what michael moore did on stage

at the oscars in 2003 as we were invading iraq was not easy or popular. maybe you could gather that from all the boos. harrison ford was smiling. today two decades later we still have troops in iraq but at least the afghanistan war is finally, finally over. moore has praised president biden's handling of the withdrawal and even told the hill, quote, i am still flabbergasted he pulled this off with such grace and precision. oscar winning film maker michael moore is back with me now. michael, how does it feel looking back on that academy award moment now? as i mentioned it wasn't easy to call that out even in liberal hollywood. talk about that moment and how things have changed over the last two decades. >> first of all harrison ford was smiling but i'm convinced he was high. so just for the record. he doesn't mind me saying that. >> okay. >> it was the fifth night of the iraq war. they almost didn't have the ceremony. and i won. and i just couldn't ignore the

fact that we were entering an illegal and immoral war. and, yes. i was booed -- many people were applauding -- martin scorsese and meryl streep and julianne moore and a few others, no relation, that were applauding. but it was very -- but listen. 29 democrats in the u.s. senate voted to give bush the war powers to invade iraq. the editor of the new yorker magazine wrote an editorial in favor or in support of the invasion as did the editorial pages of the "new york times," the judith miller who was writing all those stories on the front page of "the new york times" telling us how saddam had the weapons of mass destruction. i said i believed that was a lie. i wasn't a weapons inspector. i didn't have any knowledge of it. it just didn't make sense because i knew who attacked new york and d.c. on 9/11 and it wasn't saddam hussein so we lost

thousands of american lives and hundreds of thousands of iraqi lives as a result of this. it was very hard though at that time for myself and for barbara lee the only member of congress to vote against the invasion of afghanistan. we were pillarried. we were told we were done. that would be the end of us. you'd never hear from us again. and that all of these democrats -- >> and yet here you are, michael. happy to have you on the show. >> here i am on the mehdi hasan show. >> i was 23 years old in the uk marching against the war. people like you and barbara lee inspired us then. sadly joe biden, hillary clinton were among the senate democrats who got the vote wrong. joe biden is now president and long ago disowned his support for the iraq war and ended the afghanistan war. which you and i have welcomed. this week he spoke at the u.n. general assembly and said this. have a listen. >> i stand here today for the

first time in 20 years with the united states not at war. we've turned the page. all of the unmatched strength, energy, and commitment, will, and resources of our nation are fully and squarely focused on what is ahead of us not what was behind. >> michael, do you buy that? as we speak tonight the u.s. still has 2,500 troops in iraq. last week the u.s. military admitted a drone strike in kabul that killed ten innocent civilians was an american drone strike. seven of them were kids. we talk about ending the war but we're still going to carry on with drones and these, quote, over-the-horizon operations. you know, we are still at war. >> and in syria and in somalia and in, yes. our fingers are in many countries in a military way and this has to stop. our troops, we should be the

good guys. we should be using our troops, a billion people on this planet tonight don't have access to clean drinking water. i think a couple billion don't have access to decent sewage or septic system. what if our troops built wells in the third world? what if they built septic systems? what if we enlarged our army corps of engineers and did the good things and put a plaque on those wells in those villages where children and babies died because they didn't have clean water and the plaque said brought to you from your friends of the united states of america. that is what i want to be known for around the world. not this stuff. not -- >> yes. >> not giving a billion dollars for the iron dome in israel. not to be, you know, the overall military bill that was passed in the last week was so astounding to me. >> i'm so glad you mentioned the defense budget because people keep saying we lost the war on terror which we did in many ways but you know who didn't lose? defense contractors.

a new study at the progressive institute for studies calculated at least $7.2 trillion went to military contracts since 9/11 and as you mentioned the house just passed a $768 billion defense spending bill. apparently we can't afford money for child care or universal pre-k or expanding medicaid. >> when we think defense we should be thinking defending ourselves against the climate catastrophe that is creating an extinction event on this planet. that is what defense should mean. it should be defense against white supremacists and people who would tear down and destroy our democracy. that would be real defense. that, you know, covid still not just in our country but around the world people are not vaccinated. if we want to defend, this country defend the world, let's do that. this is where it is so wrong headed. i tell you, i was talking to

some of the representatives who are here this week. they're visiting new york from cuba, from, you know, the government people. i said to them, is there anything we can do? first of all i asked, who do you think the americans think less about, cubans or palestinians? just throwing it out there. i'm being facetious but i am very sad about this. i said what could we do to help? the cuban people, people of the third world around this world, and the man i believe who was a foreign minister said to me, you want to help us? just leave us alone. you know? you won't let us get oil. you won't go back, why won't biden go back to what obama negotiated? just that. >> exactly. i'm no fan of the cuban government but, yes. why can't we just lift the embargo as even barack obama wanted to do. >> let them live. >> we are out of time so i'll jump in and interrupt you. 20 years on, war on terror,

iraq. no one has ever been held to account. paul wolfewitz is busy writing op eds, dick cheney, no consequences. >> none. and there should be. these are war criminals. we were not attacked by the nation of iraq. we lost lives. they lost lives for no reason. it was wrong. they knew it was wrong. they threw all this money at all the companies like halliburton that cheney used to be ceo of. all of this, president eisenhower warned us, that people like them will take us right down into the gutter by spending all of this money on so-called defense when we don't even take care of our own people. we are arguing tonight whether we'll pass something tomorrow so that all people can get a hearing aid. so that all people can go to the dentist.

what is wrong with us? stop it. >> what is wrong with us. what is wrong with us indeed. we'll have to end with that rhetorical question but hopefully we'll find out this week there is something right with us and get it passed. >> because senator manchin, love america. love america. vote for your people. >> i hope he is listening to you. i hope he is listening to you, michael. i withish we could talk for longer, but we're out of time. >> i don't know. >> we're out of time. we'll have to leave it there. michael moore always appreciate the conversation. thank you. >> thank you so much, mehdi. next, the outrageous round up at the texas border this week. looked just like something out of the trump administration. my 60-second rant next on what we're still ignoring about our immigration policy. don't go away. not last all day? secret works immediately! and is designed to last for up to 48 hours. with secret, keep it fresh. available in over 10 amazing scents and aluminum free. secret helen knew exercise could help her diabetes... but she didn't know what was right for her.

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even inside the white house, president biden called it outrageous and an embarrassment and promised an investigation. his press secretary said border patrol would no longer be using horses in del rio. good. the horses are an easy distraction. the real issue is the biden administration is copying donald trump and using a decades old public health rule called title 42 to expel migrants at the border without allowing them to put in an asylum claim though it is called a scientifically baseless policy as chuck schumer pointed out this week we cannot continue these hateful policies that disregard our refugee laws. look, we hear so much about illegal immigrants at the southern border. no, no. it is not illegal to claim asylum in the united states. not under international law and/or under u.s. law either. what is likely illegal according to a district judge ruling in d.c. this month? using title 42 to mass expel asylum seekers without allowing them the opportunity. the biden administration has until this coming thursday to comply. if they don't then i am sorry on this issue they are no better than donald trump. [ buzzer ] people say don't mess with texas.

but a california law professor proved you don't mess with her. she took on texas senator ted cruz this week over his state's racist voter laws and she joins me next. knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. [ nautical horn blows ] i mean just because you look like someone else doesn't mean you eat off the floor, or yell at the vacuum, or need flea medication. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ you need an ecolab scientific clean here. and you need it here. and here. and here. which is why the scientific expertise that helps operating rooms stay clean is

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frenita tolleson. take a listen. >> in your judgment, are voter i.d. laws racist, professor? >> thank you for that question. so it depends. one thing we have to stop doing is treating all voter i.d. laws as the same. >> okay. so your answer, i want to move quickly so, it depends is your answer? >> yes, that is my answer. >> so what voter i.d. laws are racist? >> apologies mr. cruz your state of texas perhaps. >> okay. so you think the entire state of texas is racist. what about requiring an i.d. to vote is racist? >> so i think, sir, it's pretty reductive. i'm not saying the entire state of texas is racist. >> you tell me. you tell me about the voter id law is racist. >> absolutely. the fact that the evacuation order id law is put into place to diminish the political power of latinos with a racist intent and has been found -- >> you are asserting that. what is your evidence? >> the federal district court that first resolved the constitutionality of texas's voter i.d. law. >> so your view is voter i.d. laws are racist.

>> despite the professor handing senator cruz his lunch, as you saw in the clip, his state announced the next day it had begun its own phony audit of election results in four counties in a state trump won. this week we also learned the outcome of a sham audit in arizona a state trump lost. the florida based company cyber ninjas run by con spiritists and trump supporters came to the conclusion biden actually won more votes than counted. joining me is the professor of law at the university of southern california, thanks so much for coming on the show. senator cruz obviously mischaracterized your views on voter i.d. laws. you never said the entire state

of texas is racist or requiring an i.d. is racist. can you expand on what you were saying before he interrupted you? >> absolutely. so first thank you for having mi on the show. t a federal court had found texas's 2011 voter i.d. law had b passed with intent. after years of litigation texas passed a new law in 2017 to try0 to cleanse it. of its discriminatory intent and effect. texas law still remain once of the most restrictive voter id laws in the country. they only accept a handful of ids. so a drivers license, a military id, but no state id, no student id. and part that of is because they're trying to discourage certain voters who have a difficulty getting those ids from coming out to vote. >> yes. the idea that you can vote in texas with a gun license, but not with a student id i think tells you t everything. the thing about ted cruise is he is notse matt gets a or marjori taylor greene. he is a harvard law grad. he is not dumb. he likes to play dumb. he likes to assume the rest of us are dumb, but he is not dumb

himself. he knows exactly what is going on. as do other republicans who are pushing this nonsense, these fraudit's. the "washington post" ran a headline arizona ballot review reaffirms biden's victory. and i'm wondering whether you think it's a mistake to cover these phony audits this way as though they have some kind of credibility. doesn't it allow republicans to say have you seen what the report says about irregularities and fraud? i wondering if we're covering these iffraudits in the wrong w, we the media? >> i think we have to be careful about how we call it. i like how people are saying sa fraudit's because you don't want to give it the air of legitimacy. but i think it's important to cover because it emphasises the importance. what we're seeing is an all-out assault on our elections, the right to vote. it's really important for the electorate and the population should be aware of what's going on. i don't think we can afford to ignore it, depending on what it's called that could give an air of legitimacy. we have to be really careful

about that. >> yes. and i want to ask you about the democrats' new voting rights legislation, this compromised the freedom to vote act. in light of your conversation with senator cruz earlier this u week, what do you think of the new bill's id requirements? flexible id requirements, but thanks to joe manchin's requirement, it does involve some form of voter id. what do you think of that? >> that's part of my point to the senator. every voter id is not the same. texas has chosen to go down a path that adopted a restrictive law. some states allow a signature match. some allow an affidavit if you can't get the appropriate id anh still allow you to vote. so there are other ways to do voter id. but even more importantly, i think we have to stop putting the burden on voters to try to hop over all these different obstacles and burdensome restrictions in order to cast the ballot. if the rights to vote is truly fundamental, then we have to start acting accordingly and

demand that states come forward for justification for these laws. there is nofo justification forf texas's voter id law. i think that's part of the problem.at >> one last quick question. given how ruthlessly the republicans behave, and we saw ted cruise trying to mischaracterize your views therc earlier this week, are democrats fighting hard enough for voting rights in this country, senate democrats in familiar? . >> it's hard, because i think we all know that unless they're willing to get rid of the filibuster. so we'll see, right. i know that for me, i have to do my part. but i went to congress earlier this week, i understood the assignment. the assignment was for me to help coming to develop a legislative weapon to justify newly authorized. any time they call me i'll go because my job is to educate congress. as long as we all understand the assignment and we do what we're supposed to do and understand the need for new federal legislation, i remain hopeful that something will happen. >> hey, any time they call you

and you go, we're all for that.e we want you to school ted cruz as many times as you can live on tv about and in his own senate building. professor, we'll have to leave you there.es thank you for your time and thanks for your appearance in front of the senate.u stick around for ayman mohyeldin coming up next. he'll talk about how culture wars have changed in the last 30 years and plus the sunday night panel and wikileaks with michael isikoff. we'll be right back. i have a question for ayman myself. stick around. urfaces and dishes like a glue. try 9 elements, its vinegar powered deep clean dissolves soap scum build up and removes hard water spots and grease. made with never more than 9 ingredients. 9 elements, more than a clean, a cleanse.

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thank you for watching tonight. we'll be right back sunday at 8:00 p.m. eastern. chasm me monday through thursday 7:00 p.m. eastern on "the choice on nbc streaming channel peacock. time for me to hand it over to ayman mohyeldin. before i go, ayman, there is one thing i want to ask you about. >> what's that? >> robert kagan's excellent piece in "the washington post" that everyone is talking about, how american democracy is at risk of collapse, all the factors contributing to it. and i agree and likely you agree. but it's not like we haven't been saying all of that on our shows for a while now. why does it take, ayman, an establishment white guy in "the washington post" saying this for everyone else to finally pay attention, why is it those of white house are people of color weren't taken seriously when we sounded the alarm? >> listen, you kind of answered your own question, what was the keyword you just said? "establishment." i don't know if you and i have this big platform, you certainly have a huge platform on social media. i'm not sure you're part of the

d.c. establishment or as our former president used to call it, the swamp. you know, to be honest with you, i was actually looking back at my twitter feed and looking back prior to the election, saying that in the i think on january six we were both saying look if this was happening anywhere else in the world, we would be calling this an attempted coup, an attempt to overthrow the government. so you're right. i think the key word is that we're just not part of the establishment. so i can see that that's a badge of honor, no. >> it's a badge of honor but it's also the voices for the black. saying that were being hysterical, hyperbolic, you're being alarmist. and then robert hagan, great respect to him comes along and says in the, post and suddenly everyone is like oh my god the monasteries it's today. yes, thank you for catching up with the rest of. us >> you know what i, say better late than never my friend.